tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13323795.post4404426681825567175..comments2023-09-19T10:31:04.810-04:00Comments on beloved before time: Light for the JourneyAndrewhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03215174193221101678noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13323795.post-24195917201639704962009-07-09T09:46:51.087-04:002009-07-09T09:46:51.087-04:00sounds like you found it lacking in the things you...sounds like you found it lacking in the things you wanted to think about.Halfmomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06335655101343184062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13323795.post-25385934938229348232009-07-04T15:48:50.172-04:002009-07-04T15:48:50.172-04:00Wayne Grudem believes water baptism is only for th...Wayne Grudem believes water baptism is only for those who have already professed faith in Christ (credobaptism). He never really nails down what baptism means in the believer's life, in the church, or what happens to the believer at baptism, nor why it is said that baptism appears to actually do something in the believer's life (e.g., Acts 22:16; Rom. 6:3-11; Gal. 3:26-27). Nor does he explain the relationship between baptism with the Spirit and baptism with water. He simply says it's a sign that only professing believers undergo as a symbol of their union with Christ in his death and resurrection--which is now their own death and resurrection as well.<br /><br />However, in his previous edition of Systematic Theology, he said that it was not something for churches to be divided over. In his new edition, he seems more vague about it and that ecclesiastical unity is unlikely. (John Piper, a credobaptist himself, wishes Grudem hadn't changed his position.)Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03215174193221101678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13323795.post-18432438194745278292009-07-04T13:48:11.941-04:002009-07-04T13:48:11.941-04:00Humm - sorry - I was thinking of baptism, but now ...Humm - sorry - I was thinking of baptism, but now that you mention it, does Gruedem have commentary on "direction" as well? i don't remember that.Halfmomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06335655101343184062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13323795.post-32466295728063777952009-07-03T14:31:28.625-04:002009-07-03T14:31:28.625-04:00Susan,
Which subject do you mean when you ask abo...Susan,<br /><br />Which subject do you mean when you ask about Grudem's viewpoint--baptism or the way God directs our lives?Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03215174193221101678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13323795.post-76619405356593131322009-07-03T13:04:13.138-04:002009-07-03T13:04:13.138-04:00Humm - I'm looking forward to meeting your fri...Humm - I'm looking forward to meeting your friend Ryan one day. What "discussions" you must have had!<br /><br />Without taking the time to read it myself, what does dear old Grudem say on the subject? One camp or the other?<br /><br />I do love the fact that OH can be OH and you not only "allow" it, you appreciate what it brings to your life.Halfmomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06335655101343184062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13323795.post-9529065213219488022009-07-02T23:59:24.466-04:002009-07-02T23:59:24.466-04:00http://calvarychapelofrichmond.com/http://calvarychapelofrichmond.com/Jessicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06313371572021760779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13323795.post-92058306735523771422009-07-02T04:58:23.865-04:002009-07-02T04:58:23.865-04:00Andrew,
I guess I'm going by memory, but Micha...Andrew,<br />I guess I'm going by memory, but Michael Card's church (PCA) in the Franklin, Tennessee area did both, I mean they accomodated those who did not believe in infant baptism- at one time. (MC still a member there, and last time I knew, a member of a racially mixed church as well, with an African-American pastor).<br /><br />Ryan P.T.,<br />Give Witherington's book a read. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised because you get a lot for your money, a lot more than just teaching on baptism. Scot McKnight who himself is a credobaptist recommended it as the best book on the subject. And Witherington, as I said, comes out a paedo-baptist.<br /><br />Also I do think I'm privileged to go to a church like you mention, which is open to believers thinking and living outside the box, provided Scripture is central in their commitment and endeavor.Ted M. Gossardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10580691315315271791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13323795.post-54801908930462094322009-07-02T04:57:00.615-04:002009-07-02T04:57:00.615-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ted M. Gossardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10580691315315271791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13323795.post-48023956766976658282009-07-02T00:32:07.895-04:002009-07-02T00:32:07.895-04:00@Ted
"More and more churches actually do bot...@Ted<br /><br />"More and more churches actually do both."<br /><br />Well, of course! That's no new development. All your paedobaptist churches are not going to refuse to baptize someone who comes to faith later in life. It's the credobaptists who would turn off the faucet, as it were, limiting Baptism to rationally assenting, accountability-aged autonomous individuals.<br /><br />Sorry, was that sass?Ryan Tinettihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14688725724398672405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13323795.post-589241928281795502009-07-02T00:24:11.373-04:002009-07-02T00:24:11.373-04:00"To know God's direction for our lives is..."To know God's direction for our lives is simply to know what it means to love and serve him and our neighbors wholeheartedly."<br /><br />Which is...?<br /><br />It's in these gray areas of Christian freedom, where undoubtedly we may choose wrong for reasons we cannot even comprehend (let grace abound!), that Luther's counsel to constipated Melanchthon has been a great comfort to me (and, indeed, to Bonhoeffer and countless others): sin boldly! And trust in Christ more boldly still.<br /><br />Of course, you might want to find a church that actually <i>encourages</i> that kind of reckless, daring faith without accusing you of being "unregenerate." Could there be such a one?Ryan Tinettihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14688725724398672405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13323795.post-46695300248365416512009-07-02T00:18:01.742-04:002009-07-02T00:18:01.742-04:00To my knowledge the PCA does not, by the way, prac...To my knowledge the PCA does not, by the way, practice baptism of believers/confessors alone. Fred Malone, a former Presbyterian pastor, had to leave his post--albeit voluntarily--because he switched to credobaptism. I would say that you can hold to Westminster and credobaptism simultaneously; the London Baptist Confession of 1689 is the product of this. However, this really compromises Presbyterian ecclesiology and some views on the means of grace within the church.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03215174193221101678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13323795.post-4986871285845279092009-07-02T00:14:53.598-04:002009-07-02T00:14:53.598-04:00Thanks, Ted. I think that this book by Witheringt...Thanks, Ted. I think that this book by Witherington and McKnight's A Community Called Atonement would be really good books to read. You've certainly pressed them enough to where I feel like I will have to read them soon.<br /><br />But soon is not now. I'm really starting to think that, as profitable as reading others' works can be, I just need to sit down with my Bible in prayer and come up with some conclusions of my own. After all, I only feel most convinced about what I've figured out on my own.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03215174193221101678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13323795.post-47462282353252760292009-07-01T23:58:29.468-04:002009-07-01T23:58:29.468-04:00Thanks for the great comment on my blog. And now a...Thanks for the great comment on my blog. And now an interesting post over here.<br /><br />I know this sounds too good to be true, but I think Olivia and you would both really like <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Troubled-Waters-Rethinking-Theology-Baptism/dp/1602580049/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246506495&sr=1-8" rel="nofollow">this book</a>. He is a first rate scholar, and after I read the book I felt better about my position with believer's baptism, though Witherington himself actually opts for infant baptism. Best mediating book on the subject.<br /><br />Of course I like to see good exegetical work done on relevant passages, and one of my favorite exegetes for this, on baptismal passages, is Gordon Fee. He is a first rate scholar, taking a second chair to none, in my book.<br /><br />I'm just not sure, as I get older, that baptism is so cut and dried. But again, I'd really highly recommend you give the Witherington book a read.<br /><br />More and more churches actually do both; I'm sure you know that. PCA churches, my own denomination does- actually required that a pastor is willing to do either, while holding to one or the other on biblical grounds. Not maybe neat and clean theologically. But the older I get the more I realize that there is much we just can't be 100% sure of, while by faith I am more and more certain of the truth as it is in Jesus. Just how Christians live that out may differ.....<br /><br />As I remember I'll pray for you guys as you make that decision over time.Ted M. Gossardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10580691315315271791noreply@blogger.com